Groups across the country are filing legal challenges to Donald Trump’s re-election campaign, and they are arguing that the 14th Amendment prevents Trump from being legally able to hold office. But can those arguments hold up in court? That’s a question that a lot of people may not like the answer to. Mike Papantonio & Farron Cousins discuss more.


*This transcript was generated by a third-party transcription software company, so please excuse any typos.

Mike Papantonio: Groups across the country are filing legal challenges to Donald Trump’s reelection campaign, and they’re arguing that the 14th Amendment prevents Trump from being legally able to hold office. But can those arguments hold up in court? Well, we’re gonna have to answer that question. Go ahead. Pick it up and I, you know, this is a loser. It’s a loser.

Farron Cousins: Yeah, look. I mean, this is something I’ve talked to, I’ve done so many segments on this, and I’ll say what I’ve always said. Listen, do I think that Donald Trump engaged and spurred these people on January 6th? I absolutely believe that.

Mike Papantonio: I think he did too.

Farron Cousins: Now, could I prove that in court? Well, I’m not a lawyer, so I wouldn’t have the chance, but I couldn’t prove it in court. And the reason for that is because there are so many different things with the events of January 6th. Not just the 14th Amendment. There’s so many different things that are open to interpretation. You know, was it an insurrection or was it a riot? Was it a protest? Because if it’s a riot or a protest, 14th Amendment automatically doesn’t apply. You’re done. Case over. So, because there’s no official declaration, because none of the people have been charged with insurrection, you can’t even base it off, okay, well, we charged eight people with insurrection.

Mike Papantonio: Right. Right.

Farron Cousins: There’s no legal basis almost for this to even be there.

Mike Papantonio: Here’s where it really, this is the bell ringer. Okay. Oh, first of all, you and I are supposed to yell at each other according to the MAGA Dems. Farron, why don’t you yell at Mike when he says something about Biden or says something about, and I’m supposed to yell at you when we disagree. We don’t yell. We have a conversation just like the one we’re having right now. So we’ve known each other for what, 21 years? We’ve been doing this for 21 years. So we’re not children, and we’re not gonna yell and scream at each other when we disagree. I love that about doing this show. But here’s the problem. You’ve got the National Socialist Party of America versus the Village of Skokie. Now, that is the premier, just do a search, that is the premier US Supreme Court case that says that even if he did some of this. So what, okay. That’s a case, Farron, where the Supreme Court had to make a decision. Do we allow Nazis, I mean, hundreds of Nazis to walk through an area of Skokie, the village of Skokie, where you have most of the people in there had been Holocaust survivors. The Jewish, the number of Jewish Holocaust survivors was over the top. But the Supreme Court says, we’re still gonna allow them to walk through with bullhorns talking about Jews with Nazi flags, with doing what they want to do. That case kills the possibility of anything happening here, where it comes to inciting a riot. And I gotta tell you something, I’m convinced that’s what he wanted to do. I mean, I don’t have any doubt. But you’ve got a First Amendment issue. You’ve got precedent. You’ve got so much precedent. The National Socialist Party of America versus Village of Skokie is just overwhelming. I mean, just read it and you go, hmm, this is like the very edge of saying, yeah, you can do what you want to do.

Farron Cousins: Well, and I’m sure there’s gonna be people that say, yeah, okay, y’all are talking about the Capitol Riot, but what about his attempts to overturn the election results? Okay. We’ll address that right now too. Does that rise to the level of an insurrection? Well, who was the government of that day? That was him. Was he launching an insurrection against himself?

Mike Papantonio: That’s right.

Farron Cousins: No, he’s launching an insurrection, according to this lawsuit, against, at that point, a hypothetical. Something that had not yet happened. So you can’t, and again, I don’t want this guy to ever be in the office ever again.

Mike Papantonio: We don’t, I don’t either, Farron. Unlike what people, every time we say anything that says, hey there, think about this other side, it’s like, oh my God, you let Pap say that and didn’t respond. Hell no. It is, we have to talk intelligently. We have to be grownups as we talk about stuff like this. And I’m just telling you that Skokie case kills the possibilities here, destroys the possibilities. Now, people aren’t gonna like that, but that’s just the truth.

Farron Cousins: Well, and look, we’re not here to always make you feel warm and fuzzy.

Mike Papantonio: No, hell.

Farron Cousins: But I don’t want y’all getting your hopes up thinking that, hey, we’re gonna block him from the ballot. You’re not.

Mike Papantonio: I could not care less about making people feel warm and fuzzy. That’s not what we do here. We’re supposed to deliver our opinions about the news, and that’s what we do. And without yelling each other, without, hey, let’s arm wrestle Farron. Jesus Christ.

Farron Cousins: Yeah. You wanna keep the guy out of office, show up and vote against him next November.

Mike Papantonio: Exactly.

Farron Cousins: That’s the way to do it.

Mike Papantonio: Exactly. Farron, thanks for joining me.

Farron Cousins: Thank you.

Mike Papantonio: That’s all for this week, but all these segments will be available throughout next week. And make sure you follow us on Twitter @AmericasLawyer. I’m Mike Papantonio, and this has been America’s Lawyer, where we tell you the stories that corporate America won’t tell you because their advertisers don’t allow ’em to tell you, because they’re gonna lose money if they do, or their political connections don’t allow for it. They’re either too Democrat or they’re too Republican, so they don’t tell the story. We see that constantly. But you know what? We’ll always tell you the story, whether you want to hear it or not. See you next time.

Mike Papantonio is an American attorney and television and radio talk show host. He is past president of The National Trial Lawyers, the most prestigious trial lawyer association in America; and is one of the few living attorneys inducted into the Trial Lawyer Hall of Fame. He hosts the international television show "America's Lawyer"; and co-hosts Ring of Fire Radio, a nationally syndicated weekly radio program, with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and Sam Seder.