Former Vice President Mike Pence is officially running for President, even though he’s never been able to break out of the single digits in any polls. The Republican field continues to get more and more crowded, but Pence seems to think there’s a lane for him to win. Mike Papantonio & Farron Cousins discuss more.


*This transcript was generated by a third-party transcription software company, so please excuse any typos.

Mike Papantonio: Former Vice President Mike Pence is officially running for president, even though he’s never been able to break out of the single digits of any polls. Is this a story, first of all, before we do this story? Is this a story?

Farron Cousins: I think it is. I think, you know, we’ve got a crowded Republican field and this idiot thinks that he is, he’s the guy that is gonna come along and save the Republicans.

Mike Papantonio: Okay. Okay.

Farron Cousins: He is suffering from, I think, probably the worst delusions of grandeur compared to any of these other people on the Republican side. And I do think it’s hilarious because I’ll say this, Mike Pence thinks that there is an audience for him in that Republican base.

Mike Papantonio: Where is it? It’s, what is it, 6% right now that say, it’s only 6% of the Republicans that say, yeah, I got something in common with this guy.

Farron Cousins: He’s polling worse than Liz Cheney and she’s not even running for president, although she hasn’t ruled it out. But I mean, a guy at 6% who’s been at 6% for a year, he knows he’s got the stink of Trump still on him. So he can’t appeal to the normal people, and the MAGA base hates him because they think he’s a traitor.

Mike Papantonio: You know, one thing I think he’s doing that I think is pretty smart, actually, he’s running against Kamala Harris. His, he’s saying Kamala Harris is gonna be the president of the United States if the Democrats win, Joe Biden ain’t gonna make it. So when he talks about it, he’s literally talking about, I’m really running against Kamala Harris because if Joe Biden wins, Kamala Harris is gonna be president of the United States. You think, I think we’re gonna see more candidates doing that. Now that’s one, you know, does it mean anything? He’s at 6%. Does that change the dynamics of the election? I think more candidates are gonna take that position and saying, why do you think you’re running against Joe Biden?

Farron Cousins: Well, here’s what I think too. Mike Pence right now, yeah, he doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell. But things are happening right now. There’s obviously a lot of legal things happening with Trump. We’re, you know, looking at indictments possibly twice by the end of the summer. That could affect Trump. Maybe it doesn’t. DeSantis is flaming out faster than anybody we’ve ever seen. Maybe not as fast as Jeb Bush. But then he is still in third place. And then suddenly, if Trump gets knocked out or, you know, gets convicted, DeSantis is out. Suddenly it’s Pence. Pence does scare me. I mean, he doesn’t scare me at 6%. But if you think back to that vice presidential debate, actually both of them that he participated in, he’s a good debater. He’s not bad on tv. He is intelligent, he’s evil. But he can hold a conversation. He can come up with talking points.

Mike Papantonio: He’s a smart man. No, he’s a smart man.

Farron Cousins: And, well, he came from conservative radio. So he knows how to do it. He knows how to talk to people. So keeping him at 6% or lower, is in the best interest of the country.

Mike Papantonio: What do you think of the Kamala Harris approach that these candidates, you’re gonna see it more and more. I mean, every time Joe Biden falls down or can’t, you know, stumbles up the steps of the Air Force One, you’re gonna hear more, guys, we’re not running against Joe Biden. We’re running against Kamala Harris. What do you say next week we take a look at Kamala Harris.

Farron Cousins: We can do that, absolutely.

Mike Papantonio: All right. Faron Cousins, thanks for joining me.

Farron Cousins: Thank you.

Mike Papantonio: That’s all for this week. But all of these segments will be available throughout next week. And make sure you follow us on Twitter @AmericasLawyer. I’m Mike Papantonio and this has been America’s Lawyer, where every week we tell you stories that corporate media won’t tell you because their advertisers don’t allow for it or their political connections don’t allow for it. We’ll see you next time.

Mike Papantonio is an American attorney and television and radio talk show host. He is past president of The National Trial Lawyers, the most prestigious trial lawyer association in America; and is one of the few living attorneys inducted into the Trial Lawyer Hall of Fame. He hosts the international television show "America's Lawyer"; and co-hosts Ring of Fire Radio, a nationally syndicated weekly radio program, with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and Sam Seder.