Bernie Sanders hammered former Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz in a hearing last week – and Sanders may have gotten Schultz to actually lie under oath about how his company is violating labor laws. Mike Papantonio & Farron Cousins discuss more.


*This transcript was generated by a third-party transcription software company, so please excuse any typos.

Mike Papantonio: Bernie Sanders hammered former Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz at a hearing last week and Sanders may have gotten Schultz to actually lie under oath about how his company is violating labor laws. You know, here’s the way I looked at this story. It is that either Schultz was delusional and he didn’t realize he was lying, or, you know, he was disconnected from the truth. Nobody told him, hey, you might wanna know you’ve already been prosecuted a hundred times for violations, or he just is lying. He just is lying as if nobody’s gonna find out. This is a troubling story because had it not been for Bernie Sanders, this guy would never have been put on the spot, but he was put on the spot. Right?

Farron Cousins: Yeah. And this is all credit to Bernie Sanders on this particular story.

Mike Papantonio: Totally.

Farron Cousins: Because he was the head of the committee. He is the one who wanted this to happen. Because, I mean, look, Starbucks is one of the biggest companies in this country today, and just in the last few years, there’s 1400 violations that have been reported. A hundred, like you said, that have actually resulted in judgements against Starbucks. There is no way this man that was CEO of the company didn’t realize that on average they’re getting hit with a complaint every single day of the week.

Mike Papantonio: How can he not know? He’s a CEO of the company? He’s sworn under oath to where Bernie Sanders has to say, listen, Mr, do you understand you’re committing perjury if you lie under oath in front of this committee? Oh, I’m not lying, but as he’s speaking these words, you’ve got NLRB judges saying that there’s a reign of ugly coercion taking place in the labor movement with Starbucks. And oh, by the way, right now there’s 70 cases pending against your company for things like coercion, spying on organizers, creating, taking away benefits for organizers, threatening organizers. I mean, that’s the story here. And he’s, yeah, I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Farron Cousins: Right. I mean, Bernie ended up citing this specific law 18 US code section 1001. So Sanders knew this man was lying. And, you know, of course, look, nothing’s gonna happen to the guy. They could easily hit him with perjury.

Mike Papantonio: Why is that, man? It was like those, it was like the dwarfs, the little 12 dwarfs, the CEOs of the tobacco company.

Farron Cousins: Right.

Mike Papantonio: Remember that? No sir, we have no information that shows that at all, that nicotine causes any physical problem. Do you remember that?

Farron Cousins: Yeah.

Mike Papantonio: They clearly lying. One of them even admitted, yeah, he knew. But, you know, he was told to do that by his lawyer. Nobody prosecuted because they have a tie on. They have a white shirt and an Armani suit. So we don’t do anything to these people. And it’s killing democracy because anybody goes and lies in the courthouse is going to trial, they’re going to, they’re going to jail for perjury. But not this guy because he’s a billionaire. Right?

Farron Cousins: Exactly. Let’s not forget too, you know, this is the guy that was on the top of Hillary Clinton’s list to be Labor Secretary.

Mike Papantonio: Oh, I know.

Farron Cousins: Had she won in 2016.

Mike Papantonio: Oh, love affair with Hillary Clinton. Love affair. My God. You wanted to tell, I saw pictures where you wanna say check into a room, Hillary with him.

Farron Cousins: And so that’s, you know, that’s the difference I wanna point out. Bernie Sanders pulls this guy into the Senate, basically gets him to lie under oath. Hammers the hell out of him. But Hillary Clinton would’ve had him in charge of labor policy for the US.

Mike Papantonio: Corporate Democrat. Corporate Democrat. That’s what this is. They’re their own little animal out there. And all the folks watching this, anything that’s Democrat by God I’m for, and they never differentiate between the, those corporate Democrats are great on social issues. Where it comes to gay rights or it comes to any kind of rights that we’re concerned about, whether it’s gender rights, whatever it may be. They’re good on those issues, but they’re awful, terrible where it comes to protecting consumers against Wall Street. They are part of Wall Street and everybody watching this program, anything we say about the Democrats, oh my God, how dare you say about the Democrats. They’re killing us. Corporate Democrats are killing us.

Mike Papantonio is an American attorney and television and radio talk show host. He is past president of The National Trial Lawyers, the most prestigious trial lawyer association in America; and is one of the few living attorneys inducted into the Trial Lawyer Hall of Fame. He hosts the international television show "America's Lawyer"; and co-hosts Ring of Fire Radio, a nationally syndicated weekly radio program, with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and Sam Seder.