Via America’s Lawyer: Corporations understand that not every legal battle is gonna make it to the Supreme Court. In fact, most cases won’t even make it to federal court at all. That’s why corporate dark money is starting to flood local judicial races. Mike Papantonio and Trial Magazine’s Editor Farron Cousins discuss. Plus, Mollye Barrows, legal journalist with the Trial Lawyer Magazine, joins Mike Papantonio to talk about how a federal judge will weigh whether the Alabama prison system is doing enough to prevent suicides after 15 inmates killed themselves within 15 months.


*This transcript was generated by a third-party transcription software company, so please excuse any typos.

Mike Papantonio: Corporations understand that not every legal battle is gonna make it to the Supreme Court. In fact, most cases won’t even make it to federal court at all. That’s why corporate dark money is starting to flood local judicial races. I have a Farron Cousins with me with the Trial Lawyer Magazine to talk about this. This is a story you’ve been covering a long time. If I think back, how long we have been trying to warn everybody all that’s happening, all what happens with voters is it’s the shiny things. The president’s race, this Senate race, the, you know, maybe the, I don’t know, they, they pay more attention to local town, county commissioners than they pay where it comes to local state court judges. And we’re getting killed as consumers in state courts aren’t we?

Farron Cousins: Absolutely and that’s what, you know, voters don’t seem to understand. Most judicial races in this country are, are considered nonpartisan, which means when you go vote for the judge, there’s not going to be an R or a D next to the person’s name. It’s just the judge’s name you vote for. Maybe you’ve seen some commercials, but what people don’t understand is that there is a lot of money. You know, it might be a town of 2000 people, but that judge has probably taken in tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars from massive corporate interests. And, you know, you pointed out, I’ve been talking about this for a long time. It’s every two years I have to do another story on this to talk about all the money flowing into these judicial elections.

Mike Papantonio: Let me put it into perspective, okay, let’s just take for example, let’s take Wisconsin. What a nightmare, I mean it’s a nightmare up there. So you have, you have, you have governor Scott, Scott Walker, you know, dope of all dopes. He is able now to put in place the judges, the state court judges that helped him get elected. That’s what’s happening. For example, he has one judge that actually raised all the money for him to be elected as governor in the elect, in the campaign. Now here’s what’s really interesting. So, so Walker, then appoints the judge and now this particular judge is hearing all of these cases that are being generated by the very people who gave him money, the big corporations, the special interests.

Rather than saying, you know, I can’t get involved. I raised money with these people. No, these judges are jumping right into it and that’s what everybody’s missing. What, you know, even this article, this article talked about, it talked about kind of the warm and fuzzy social issues, LGBT and you know the bathroom bills. I don’t know why writers talking about this topic always fall on those issues. LGBT, bathroom issues, gender issues, when the, when you rather than talking about dinner table issues that affect consumers. That’s where these judges are killing us.

Farron Cousins: Absolutely, and what we’ve seen, the reason they target these, you know, smaller cities, states, whatever it is, the local courthouse judge, the reason they go after these people’s is because those are the people who make the decisions that are directly going to affect a corporation in that area. Say you have a town like Denton, Texas that you remember a few years ago they passed the resolution to ban fracking. Well, suddenly after they did that, you had all of this fossil fuel money coming into this tiny little Texas town to elect county commissioners into the judicial races because they wanted to overturn this. The Koch brothers specifically target school boards in places like Ohio and the Dakotas, and they do it because all politics is local. And if they can get, you know, a county commissioner to go along with their plans for a new fracking well or a local judge to rule that, yes you can frack here, that’s all they need. You can spend $10,000 on that small campaign versus 10 million on a federal campaign.

Mike Papantonio: So let me go back to this, this note of, that we talk about all the time. People have to understand that these state court judges affect the environment. They affect wage and hour. They affect every aspect of what I call the dinner table issues. That’s mom and pop talking about we don’t have enough money to pay our mortgage. We don’t have enough money to pay the rent. We can’t afford food. Instead these writers, I don’t know why this infuriates me so but every, this is Truthout for example, and she did a good job talking about the article, but they always return to these, to these social issues as if the social issues is what mom and pop cares about. Mom and pop could care, could not care less whether there’s something called a bathroom bill. You understand what I’m saying? Mom and pop care that this local judge can shut down a union, that this local judge can destroy the environment that the local judge can affect wage and hour issues. I mean that’s really what this is all about. So…

Farron Cousins: Well and also that the local judge could side with a corporation, you know, and say, okay, we’re going to give up this plot of land to the corporation. Yes, it’s right next to a school and a community center, but they really want to drill for oil right here. They want to pump their fracking fluids into this ground next to the school and I’m going to let them do that.

Mike Papantonio: Yeah, but instead the writers, Truthout again, kudos to this woman who did this article, but again, she goes to the same place that all of these progressive writers go. What about the social? Yeah, these social issues are a problem, but what mom and pop care about when you talk about issues like this, how does this affect me? Not, not how does it affect a bathroom bill. And I think until they start understanding that the American, it’s, it’s like they never connect. It never connects to the American public at all.

Mike Papantonio: A federal judge who once ruled that the Alabama prison system has “tremendously inadequate mental healthcare,” is now going to decide if the states doing enough to prevent inmates suicides.

Mollye Barrows: Yes.

Mike Papantonio: Another Alabama story.

Mollye Barrows: It shocks you doesn’t it?

Mike Papantonio: Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana.

Mollye Barrows: They’re so big on civil rights Pap, its shocking.

Mike Papantonio: So what’s the central issue in this case, Mollye?

Mollye Barrows: Well, this is actually an ongoing problem for some time. This suit was brought by the Southern Poverty Law Center. I always get, have to look down over that one, Southern Poverty Law Center. So they brought this several years ago. They’ve amended it because of this recent spike in suicides. 15 inmates have killed themselves in 15 months. Attorneys for these inmates are saying that this is unacceptable, that there are basically a number of reasons that these inmates are committing suicide that can be impacted by the correction system that they, majority of these are happening.

In fact, the Southern Poverty Law Center says that Alabama has the highest number of suicides within the prison system and a good number of them are happening when they’re in solitary confinement. So that’s essentially what this lawsuit is about. This same judge that heard similar allegations in a, a similar suit a couple of years ago and said that healthcare being provided through the correction system was horrendous and a problem, is now hearing this same case where the protocol of determining basically, is Alabama doing enough to prevent these suicides? What prevention measures do they have in place? What needs to be changed? What can be changed?

Mike Papantonio: Okay, so look, look, part of this story as we go forward, we’re going to find that the privates, the private prison industry is…

Mollye Barrows: You got it.

Mike Papantonio: Is, is having part of this problem.

Mollye Barrows: 8 million the state already wants to borrow to build new prisons. That’s exactly where it’s going.

Mike Papantonio: Okay. Okay, so what is the response from Alabama prison officials? How do they say, yeah, yeah, yeah, we had 15 suicides, but yeah, these are people in prison. Things happen. What, what’s the response? Cause I remember the last time this came up.

Mollye Barrows: Right.

Mike Papantonio: There was a similar kind of problem. Alabama says, you know, it’s just endemic in the system that if you look all over the country, everybody has these problems and everybody doesn’t have these problems.

Mollye Barrows: That’s exactly right. Well they’re trying to say, hey, these inmates aren’t dying because we don’t care. We do care. We just need to tighten up our measures and our protocol and makes some changes and we do want to do a better job of effectively identifying potential suicidal inmates and we’re gonna make some changes. So they’ve come up with their own plan and response that basically says we really do have a heart. We do care about the safety of our inmates. We’re not going to send them straight from mental health observation to solitary confinement. We’ll stop that practice. So that’s what is coming out in this hearing this week is that all this testimony, especially from attorneys that represented clients who did commit suicide, telling these horror stories of how essentially there were plenty of warning signs and corrections officers within the system. We’re not doing anything about it. So they’re saying, you know, at the very least hold your people accountable when they’re not even following basic procedures when it comes to following mental health rules.

Mike Papantonio: Well part of the problem, I read some similar stories that you’re talking about here. What part of the problem is a lot of the prisoners have bad drug problems.

Mollye Barrows: Absolutely, they’ve already got issues. That’s why they’re there.

Mike Papantonio: They’ve got issues. They’re thrown into this in solitary confinement. There’s really no effort to help them make it through the drug addiction problem. So it’s like throwing gasoline on a fire and all of a sudden they’re committing suicide. There, there’s ways to deal with this. The point is there are other prison systems all over the country that have those same problems, but they have stop gaps in between. They say, okay, this person’s coming in for, you know, a lifetime heroin addiction. How do we deal with that? What do we do? And they just make it at least reasonably humane to where they can make it through the system. They don’t throw them in, in a solitary confinement and say, well, bad things happen to prisoners. What’s the, what’s the judge’s reaction so far to this process?

Mollye Barrows: Well, you know, it does give me a little bit of hope. This is federal judge Myron Thompson. Like I said, he heard this similar allegations a couple of years ago and he’s saying, all righty, well this sure sounds a lot like what I’ve already heard and seems to be wanting to perhaps go down the path of some sort of accountability where we see some real changes because they were already supposed to be implementing some of these changes. And yet based on the fact that you have a wave of suicides, another spike, 15 in 15 months, he’s saying this sure sounds similar to the last time we heard these allegations. In fact, when they addressed them two years ago, an inmate who testified during that trial later committed him, committed suicide after he testified. So this judge is saying, look, you know, how many times do we have to get people on the stand saying you’ve got problems and yet the same thing keeps coming up. So yeah,

Mike Papantonio: The point being, they’ve looked at it very closely. This is not speculation. They compared what’s happening in Alabama to what’s happening in the rest of the country and Alabama is way on the fringe,

Mollye Barrows: And you’re right, it boils down to we need reform. Reentry reform, identifying them when they’re in there, giving them the proper skills and tools to deal with it and not building more prisons.

Mike Papantonio: Thank you for joining me. We’ll by the way, next week we’re going to be talking about private prison systems. This is a big story there. Okay.

Mollye Barrows: Sounds good. Thanks, Pap.

Mike Papantonio is an American attorney and television and radio talk show host. He is past president of The National Trial Lawyers, the most prestigious trial lawyer association in America; and is one of the few living attorneys inducted into the Trial Lawyer Hall of Fame. He hosts the international television show "America's Lawyer"; and co-hosts Ring of Fire Radio, a nationally syndicated weekly radio program, with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and Sam Seder.