Via America’s Lawyer: Trial Magazines Editor Farron Cousins joins Mike Papantonio to break down the nightmare in court Jeffrey Epstein is facing with regard to his request for bail and house arrest. Investigators have found his exorbitant assets to include mounds of diamonds, heaps of cash, and a falsified passport, but have Epstein’s gratuitous access to finances finally met their bitter end in a court of law?


*This transcript was generated by a third-party transcription software company, so please excuse any typos.

Mike Papantonio:             On Monday, Jeffrey Epstein appeared in court for his bail hearing and although the judge won’t give us a ruling until tomorrow, the court hearing could not have gone worse for Epstein. Joining me to talk about this is Farron Cousins. By the way, let’s be clear, we don’t do interviews here. This is not an interview section, this is a discussion section. So let’s discuss it. Talk about the bail hearing. Let’s start out, let’s start off there. That’s the best place to begin.

Farron Cousins:                  Well it was a really bad day for Epstein and to be honest, I’m actually very impressed with these prosecutors. You know, we, we knew when he got arrested that they raided this a $77 million mansion that he has in New York. We heard a little bit trickle out about what they found, but they really laid it out during this bail hearing. They did a good job of not releasing it ahead of time, just kind of keeping it under wraps. And that’s what you want to see in a situation like this. Don’t give his defense lawyers the upper hand.

So they go into court, they say, listen, this guy is a massive flight risk, which we all know. He’s got the private jet with a private island. He can get away if he wants to. But we also found a couple of things that we find pretty troubling. We found a pile of diamonds, mountains of cash. Oh, and also a passport issued to Epstein under a fake name from Saudi Arabia. And when the judge heard that, he had to say, hold, say that again. Because even the judge couldn’t believe that Epstein’s sitting there holding a fraudulent passport, from the 80’s.

Mike Papantonio:             I love, I love this judge. I gotta tell you something. You know, sometimes we’re pretty hard on judges. This is the guy, Richard Berman. I love this, this exchange. The, the defense lawyer comes into court and says, judge, he’s not, he’s not ou,t an out of control rapist. The judge comes back and says, sir, how do we know that? So, okay, so finally we’re in front of a judge that understands, I think a couple of things. This is not a judge that’s going to keep everything secret. He, I really do believe he’s going to disclose to the American public what’s going on here. But here’s, here’s the crazy thing.

They find the diamonds, they find the passport, they find cash. Nevertheless, the defense lawyer with a straight face comes to court and says, well, you know what, could you just do a house release? Let him stay in his seven story mansion. And oh by the way, 20, 7 story, 20 million plus dollar mansion and oh by the way, we’ll pay for the private guards and oh yes, we’ll agree to an ankle bracelet. I mean, really, I, I know you gotta defend your client, but this judge is asking the right questions. Didn’t we see the same thing with Roman Polanski? You remember?

Farron Cousins:                  Yeah, absolutely.

Mike Papantonio:             Roman Polanski accused of, you know, raping a 13 year old, goes off to Paris. We never see him again, even though he still is the darling of Hollywood. Nobody seems to understand he raped a 13 year old girl.

Farron Cousins:                  Well, there’s no doubt in my mind that if we hadn’t already been through the very lenient plea deal in state of Florida that Epstein, this wouldn’t have been a, okay, let me get back to you in two days on this. The judge would have already said, okay, yeah, I’ll give you bail. But I think having that precedent set, we know how lenient things were on him before. This judge understands everybody who was associated with that is under massive fire right now and I think this judge is going to weigh that as well in this decision, but probably not as heavily as the fact that this guy has his own fleet of planes and an island he can go to that we can’t touch, millions of dollars.

And look, I have to ask too, and I, I think the judge, you know, was thinking about this too. If Epstein is allegedly a billionaire, you know, a money manager, so he’s in charge of putting money in banks and stocks and funds and all that. Why would he himself have a mountain of cash?

Mike Papantonio:             Okay, let’s…

Farron Cousins:                  Shouldn’t that be in the bank?

Mike Papantonio:             Let’s add to that. He was just in Paris, right?

Farron Cousins:                  Right.

Mike Papantonio:             He’s in Paris. He buys one of, you know, right on, perfect, you know, perfect property. Buys a mansion there on this perfect property. He’s obviously setting up because he’s getting ready to make a move, just like Roman Polonsky. Our relationship with France is not all that great right now. He probably could hold out many, many years. What I like about this judge is he’s asking the right questions. Now, he may surprise me tomorrow. He may come up with something that’s wild. Speaking of wild, Courtney Wild. Okay.

One of the victims comes to court during the bail hearing and says, judge, pleading with the judge, saying judeg, this is a very scary guy. And what I’m worried about is if you let him out, he has so much access, he can do the same thing again and again because the guy has some type of, you know, screw loose. He’s a pedophile, he’s never going to change. And if you let him out, that’s going to be a problem. And, and she raised another thing that was raised in court and we’re hearing more about it.

What about the socialite Maxwell? Okay. Maxwell was the woman who procured all these young girls. Here’s what I’ve got a problem with. Maybe you can help me with this. She goes, after everybody knows that she’s involved in this, everybody knows that she was procuring 13, 14 year old girls for this pedophile Epstein down in south Florida. She goes to New York and she becomes a big hit, a big celebrity hit in New York after the fact. She’s running an NGO called TerraMar. Did you follow this story?

Farron Cousins:                  I did and more importantly, the folks that ProPublica followed TerraMar and they just so happen to have TerraMar’s 2016 short form tax information right here.

Mike Papantonio:             Okay, okay.

Farron Cousins:                  And this is really interesting. This is from 2016 and it’s worth noting also that TerraMar was completely disbanded and dissolved six days ago, I think after all this happened.

Mike Papantonio:             Right.

Farron Cousins:                  So TerraMar in 2016, this organization that she’s hobnobbing with celebrities, only brought in $31,000 some how.

Mike Papantonio:             Right, right.

Farron Cousins:                  But they had losses of over half a million dollars.

Mike Papantonio:             Okay, here’s the…

Farron Cousins:                  That doesn’t add up at all.

Mike Papantonio:             Doesn’t add up at all. Okay, well, here’s the point. You got this Maxwell who is nothing, she’s nothing more than a pimp and a madam. I mean, she’s going around getting all these people. She shows up in Hollywood, she shows up in New York, just like Epstein, like she’s some kind of darn hero. Any, look, I, I just asked, we just, we just covered this idea. What is it that goes on with this whole celebrity analysis where Katie Couric, George Stephanopoulos show up at, at, at Epstein’s New York mansion with British royalty after he’s been caught. After he has pled to being a pedophile.

After we give him the sweetheart deal where he spends time six hours a day in some posh little apartment that’s connected to the jail because of this Acosta deal that, that’s given to him. What is it that goes through the brain of people like Bill Clinton and Dershowitz and Woody Allen? I mean, I’ve got the list here. These were just people that are on his phone list. Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Alec Baldwin, Kevin Spacey. You know, Woody Allen, I kinda, I kinda get the Woody Allen. Chelsea Handler. How is it that they’re attracted to that? I can’t, I, I, I really want an answer to it. Is it money and power? Is that access to girls? What’s the deal? What is your take on it?

Farron Cousins:                  Well, all of these people you’ve just mentioned, they already have money and power. They already have the influence that they want or need. So I don’t want to put words in anybody’s mouth or make any kind of accusations here, but at the same time, there’s only one logical thing left to why, why you’re going to hang out with Epstein. You don’t need money. You don’t need influence. You don’t need power. You already know all the famous people, so you’re not doing it for that.

There’s only one other thing Epstein’s been known for and they knew this at the time because these parties and gatherings in New York started in 2010 and 2011 which was after he served that prison sentence. None of this was in the dark at the time. They knew it. They knew who he was and what he had done and still said, I’m going to go party at his house. And now we, we need to know why. We need to know the Saudi Arabia connection too.

Mike Papantonio:             Exactly.

Farron Cousins:                  Because that’s a, that’s a big issue.

Mike Papantonio:             The Saudi Arabia connection’s a huge connection. Okay. Let’s, is this any different than Epstein, than, than Weinstein? Okay. Weinstein, great, great example. This is his Hollywood, I don’t know what you’d even call it. Maybe somebody watching the show could email me and tell me what is it that goes on in the head of these, these folks in Hollywood or New York, these celebrity types that seem just to look the other way. And you got Weinstein raping women who are simply trying to get a job as an actress. He’s raping them. But nevertheless, everybody in Hollywood knows it. They embrace him. He’s one of us. Okay. This story, what I find most interesting, this story have been told by Graydon Carter with Vanity Fair.

Farron Cousins:                  Yep.

Mike Papantonio:             Now, this is a really ugly story to me and I don’t know why this is not talked about more. Graydon Carter was the editor of Vanity Fair. Alright, Farmer, one of the girls who’s been raped, she’s been hustled all over between the island to New Mexico. She’s actually been held captive in one of, one of the homes that Epstein owns. She’s captive there with Epstein and Maxwell and she’s raped repeatedly, according to Farmer. Farmer wants the story to be told in Vanity Fair magazine. Okay. Now Graydon Carter says, no, we can’t tell that story.

We just, we just can’t tell that story because we don’t have enough information. Well, really the information that he did buy into was all this facade. The facade is that Epstein is this money mezzanine fund manager that has all of this money that he’s getting from all these different people. That was a lie, but Graydon didn’t even look into that. And he says, he says, well, he just wasn’t credible. This Farmer woman saying she had been raped. All they had to do is a little investigation. Right?

Farron Cousins:                  Absolutely. And, you know, you draw the parallels there. There’s another one that parallels with Graydon Carter with the Weinstein stories. You had Ronan Farrow. Ronan Farrow had that Weinstein story and I believe it was NBC said, we don’t, we don’t want to do this, we don’t want to touch this. So Ronan Farrow had to, had to go elsewhere to have this massive, you know, groundbreaking America changing story published. And Graydon Carter essentially told Farmer the same thing. Listen, hey, it’s a fantastic story. I don’t believe you. Thanks for your time. But Graydon Carter was a part of the, you know, fancy elite and you know at, not necessarily at Epstein’s parties, but he, that’s the kind, he’s a socialite. I don’t know the word for, for men, but that’s who he is.

Mike Papantonio:             Okay. So, you got, Andy Lack, by the way on the Farron, the Ronan Farrow with Weinstein. He’s the one that made decision along with Phil Griffin with MSNBC, no, we can’t do that story. The, it was overwhelming. Why did they reach that decision? You see, why did they do that? That’s the heart of what I’m getting to.

Farron Cousins:                  Yeah.

Mike Papantonio:             Why is it that the, a guy as odious as this, that you would not want to hang, I would never want to have a beer with a guy like that. So, but you want to embrace him. Understand, there’s stories that talk about that even after the event that took place down in south Florida. He’s in Hollywood at first run premier movies that people that are, that have been in the business for decades can’t even get into the movie, but they clear them out and they make a room for on the front row for this character to go watch the movie.

Why do they do that? Is it money and power? Is it access? Is it because he says, well, you know, I’m friends with, I’m friends with Bill Clinton. I’m friends with Alan Dershowitz. I’m friends with, with Trump. Is that how it works? I’m really having trouble understanding the mentality of these people that are so accepting of these really dirtbag kind of characters that we hear these stories about.

Farron Cousins:                  Well, honestly, that’s a question that hopefully we’re going to find out as this trial moves forward. Because right now the only person who has those answers definitively is Epstein. He knows exactly why these people were hanging out with him. Why they embraced him, why they welcomed him, and I don’t think it has anything to do with access to other high profile people. They already had it. They already have the money. They didn’t have something that they wanted from Epstein, and honestly, I can’t…

Mike Papantonio:             Anything that had to do with girls, yeah.

Farron Cousins:                  That’s the only conclusion I can come to at the moment. We’ll see if that plays out.

Mike Papantonio:             We’ll see. Farron Cousins, thank you for joining me. Okay.

Farron Cousins:                  Thank you.

Mike Papantonio is an American attorney and television and radio talk show host. He is past president of The National Trial Lawyers, the most prestigious trial lawyer association in America; and is one of the few living attorneys inducted into the Trial Lawyer Hall of Fame. He hosts the international television show "America's Lawyer"; and co-hosts Ring of Fire Radio, a nationally syndicated weekly radio program, with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and Sam Seder.